With all my Heart - Episode discussion

[youngwarlock]

Wow, wow, and wow. Where do I begin?!

Mr Morgan you are EPIC EPIC EPIC

[mordred]

*bows to Colin Morgan's epicness!* I have to agree; he was awesome!!!! I'm definately going to have to rewatch that episode though, to gauge my feelings on the episode; they're very mixed at the moment!!!

[Arthur Pendragon]

RIGHT! SO there was lots I liked and didn't like!! Firstly, I was SO happy that it was blatantly stated that Gwen was enchanted! I KNEW that she would not willingly betray Arthur and was glad that they made that clearer than they already did! It wasn't about her moving over to the dark side, it was about her being forced under a toturturous ritual that made her lose her free will!! I knew that she was under a spell but was glad it was directly stated!

With that said, I was extremely disappointed with the lack of Arwen in this episode!! I was hoping for more when he was trying to convince her to step into the water and then after the enchantment was broken. Even a little scene in their chambers at the end of the ep would have been perfect!! But they really disappointed the Arwen fans with the lack of it! After building it up for three episodes, I don't think they did a good job with ending that particular plot!! SUPER disappointing and it left me rather bitter!!

On the more positive note, Old Lady Merlin made me CRACK up!! And was glad to see Mordred get a bit more of a role this ep! I'm SO EXCITED for next week cause I LOVE Alator, so can't wait to see him again!!

[youngwarlock]

Arthur! Does this mean you have officially returned?

Mordred, I totally agree! My head is all mixed up and the only thing I can think about is the epic acting, ESPECIALLY the part where old Emrys visits the nasty old thingymabob in the cave and basically kicks her ass, THAT was without doubt my FAVOURITE scene!!! That and the one where MORDRED kicks Morgana's ass!!!!!

[Arthur Pendragon]

I HAVE!!! hahahah!! And I thought what better way to return than to make my first post about the ep !! I'm still ridiculously busy but at the same time, have a ridiculous amount of muse!!!! So I shall be posting in threads VERY Soon!! !!

[mordred]

I think the episode was predominantly about Arthur's willingness to do whatever it took to save Guinevère from Morgana's powers; though I'd have loved to see the scene they for some reason chose not to show where Merlin revealed the truth to Arthur about Guinevère being under a spell of some sort or other!

On the plus, welcome back, Arthur!

Merlin; You are so very in line with my thoughts right now! The acting was amazing, kickass Merlin ALWAYS makes me do the happy dance; and I was so happy to see Mordred do something for once, rather than just sit in the background twiddling his thumbs!!!

[Arthur Pendragon]

THANKS Mordred!!! I think he did tell Arthur that Guinevère was under a spell! He said that sorcery was what caused the enchantment and such and at the beginning of the episode, Merlin told Arthur that she was under the influence of dark magic or whatever! And I think Gaius had mentioned a few things in terms of her being under a spell! I don't even think they showed much of him struggling to decide to use magic, because his mind was set!

The Wicked Day showed a LOT more of him being conflicted, but this one his mind was made up! I think that should have been an intense episode for the couple, was a bit too dismissive of everything! Like they didn't even show Guinevère after the enchantment was broken! Did she remember everything? How did she feel? I just think it was really disappointing conclusion for such a major plot this season!

[youngwarlock]

Just thought of something.... I think Arthur knows.... Well, I already think Arthur knows but the fact that he almost left Merlin behind... it feels like he was doing it on purpose to wind him up, having possibly recognised him .....I mean come ON, Arthur would NEVER leave Merlin behind!!!!

And yes, welcome back Arthur!

[mordred]

You're welcome! And yes, they did, but I would have loved to see what led to Merlin and Arthur spying on Gwen and Morgana in the first place! Something must have led to that particular moment, and it's interesting that they chose not to show it...! Even though they did, as you say, talk about it afterwards; with Gaius explaining things and Merlin explaining it as well.

I think after the events of The Wicked Day, and after losing Gwen before, Arthur is at a place where he is willing to do almost whatever it takes to get Guinevère back; hence the lack of internal struggle. With Uther, the struggle was much more about knowing that his father detested magic, and wouldn't have approved - and whilst the same was somewhat true of Guinevère, I think Arthur was very willing to risk that in order to free her from Morgana's spell. I also think that Arthur's beginning to trust magic more than before - he would never trust Guinevère's life and reason to something he didn't trust or wasn't beginning to trust, and I think this episode, in many ways, shows him slowly beginning to understand that magic isn't entirely evil; back when "The Wicked Day", Arthur isn't King; he's inexperienced and hasn't the world on his shoulders. He very much looks to his father, and I think that helped with his internal struggle. In this episode, he was very much his own man; trusting in his manservant, and trusting that Merlin's knowledge wouldn't let him down.

To put it simply - I think Arthur knows that Merlin would never do anything to put Guinevère's life at risk, and wouldn't have suggested using magic if it hadn't been the very last resort.

And Merlin... YES. Agreed!!! Arthur definately knows: there's no way that Arthur would have ever left his manservant behind!!!

[Arthur Pendragon]

OH! I definitely agree Mordred!! I didn't expect this episode to show the inner conflict Arthur was faced when having to use magic to save her! I also think he realizes that it was the only way, since Magic had brought her to that state. Where as in The Wicked Day, it wasn't magic that had initially mortally wounded Uther. So it was a completely different circumstanace as well Arthur's attitude toward magic . . . I definitely agree, I think its softening. But I also think Merlin keeping it a secret is getting tedious and frustrating! He could do SO MUCH MORE if he was honest about it and in last week's ep when he was like "Arthur would have me hanged if he knew I had magic" , just demonstrated his lack of faith in their friendship. Who knows WHAT Arthur would do if he find out, but I think he deserves a bit of a chance, considering, as you said which I totally agree with, he trusts Merlin!

Sadly, Merlin is not trusting Arthur in the same way and it just makes me sad because it is getting to the point where Merlin could have saved SO many people, and made things SO much less inconvenient if the truth came out! Now if Morgana finds out before everyone, imagine how CRAAZY thats going to be!!

On the other hand, I am REALLY liking the dynamic between Mordred/Merlin! How they are the only ones who know each other's secret! And how Mordred didn't tell Morgana who Emrys was! Its a great relationship between them, and I like it almost as much as Mordred/Arthur's relationship !! I just keep bracing myself because I KNOW whats coming!! DARN IT MORDRED!! PLEASE DON'T KILL ARTHUR!!!!

[mordred]

I agree; Merlin's magic does need to be revealed, but I don't necessarily agree that it's Merlin's fault that he's not trusting Arthur. I think the trust is there, but there's also a lot of fear, too. Merlin has a lot of responsibilities; not just to Arthur, but to Camelot, to Killgharrah and Aithusia, to Gaius, and to Albion - if the stakes weren't so high, perhaps he would have revealed himself far sooner. But I think Merlin knows that Arthur's current lax judgement on magic is due a lot to circumstance; that if something had gone wrong when they cured Guinevère (or however you want to call it!) then Arthur would have completely turned against magic; the way he did during "The Wicked Day", and even earlier in the series, in the episode where Morgause revealed the truth of Arthur's birth to him. Arthur has proven to be rather influencial through circumstance, and I feel Merlin knows that... however, I do completely agree that if he were to reveal his magic, then there is so much more that he could do with it.

Don't forget also that there's the major issue of Mordred for Merlin, too; even though Mordred knows that Merlin is a warlock, he doesn't know the extent of Merlin's powers, and I suspect Merlin wants to keep it that way! No matter what Mordred's true intentions are (as of yet we have no idea), Merlin doesn't trust him; and thus it isnt safe for him to reveal his place at Arthur's side just yet.

I think Merlin's words in last week's episode most likely came from fear; after all, no matter what, the ban on magic still exists in Camelot, and Merlin is closest to the King of all; he doesn't know what Arthur would do - even if he hopes the King would act favourably, he can't be sure. Even though Arthur is slowly beginning to trust more now. I agree though, it's time that Merlin takes a leap of faith. However, I feel for him too; every other time he's tried to do just that - not with revealing magic, of course - it tends to go ill for Merlin! This series shows a wiser and more serious Merlin; a no-nonsense but knows the risks warlock; I think he now knows teh true risks of what a reveal would do.

I love the dynamic between Mordred and Merlin; it's so tense and fantastic; but I do wish they would use Mordred more in this series! Especially as it's going to be the last. It seems a bit random for Mordred to turn against Arthur as he's supposed to do; especially as there are only probably around 4 episodes left for it to happen! MOrdred can't help it!!! It's destiny!!!

[youngwarlock]

Dec 1, 2012 17:03:23 GMT -5 mordred said:

I agree; Merlin's magic does need to be revealed, but I don't necessarily agree that it's Merlin's fault that he's not trusting Arthur. I think the trust is there, but there's also a lot of fear, too. Merlin has a lot of responsibilities; not just to Arthur, but to Camelot, to Killgharrah and Aithusia, to Gaius, and to Albion - if the stakes weren't so high, perhaps he would have revealed himself far sooner. But I think Merlin knows that Arthur's current lax judgement on magic is due a lot to circumstance; that if something had gone wrong when they cured Guinevère (or however you want to call it!) then Arthur would have completely turned against magic; the way he did during "The Wicked Day", and even earlier in the series, in the episode where Morgause revealed the truth of Arthur's birth to him. Arthur has proven to be rather influencial through circumstance, and I feel Merlin knows that... however, I do completely agree that if he were to reveal his magic, then there is so much more that he could do with it.

Don't forget also that there's the major issue of Mordred for Merlin, too; even though Mordred knows that Merlin is a warlock, he doesn't know the extent of Merlin's powers, and I suspect Merlin wants to keep it that way! No matter what Mordred's true intentions are (as of yet we have no idea), Merlin doesn't trust him; and thus it isnt safe for him to reveal his place at Arthur's side just yet.

I think Merlin's words in last week's episode most likely came from fear; after all, no matter what, the ban on magic still exists in Camelot, and Merlin is closest to the King of all; he doesn't know what Arthur would do - even if he hopes the King would act favourably, he can't be sure. Even though Arthur is slowly beginning to trust more now. I agree though, it's time that Merlin takes a leap of faith. However, I feel for him too; every other time he's tried to do just that - not with revealing magic, of course - it tends to go ill for Merlin! This series shows a wiser and more serious Merlin; a no-nonsense but knows the risks warlock; I think he now knows teh true risks of what a reveal would do.

THIS! Couldn't have said it better ;D

[Arthur Pendragon]

I totally get that Merlin has that fear over what the reveal can do, but at the same time, I think there is just too much at stake. SO many lives have been lost, and its just getting to be a bit too much. Its moments of inconsistency that I find to be inexcusable for Merlin to keep his magic from Arthur and the others. For example, last week, he used magic in front of a complete stranger just to spare them of bandits. Yet SO many situations have presented themselves where he has the capability to save lives and chooses not to exercise it. It isn't necessarily Merlin's character that I blame as much as the writing and progression of the show. I get that he's willing to do anything and everything to protect Arthur, but in doing so, he's forgoing so many opportunities that could prove beneficial to the future of magic.

If he revealed his magic, he would NOT have to let go of so many opportunities to protect and save everyone. He wouldn't have to sound ridiculous and make Arthur find him so incompetent. I agree that a lot can and does go wrong when it comes to magic, at the same time, if he knew all the times that magic had saved him, who's to say that he would not be more trusting of it? He is a man who acts due to circumstances, agreed, but he doesn't know how much good magic can do because Merlin keeps that from him. And thus, the only exposed use of magic is for evil purposes because thats how they strike him. It goes both ways, and if anyone can instill Arthur's faith in magic, its Merlin. I just feel like Merlin has a much better chance of protecting Arthur, and so many others, if he didn't have to hide it, and I find the excuse of 'Arthur having him killed for it' being a bit unfair and lacking faith in Arthur when he has shown willing to give magic a chance.

I agree that obviously Merlin doesn't trust Mordred, nor Mordred know what he's capable of. Its understandable and expected for Merlin to be wary of Mordred, but I like that Mordred is trying. However, in terms of him having magic and keeping that a secret, I just find that super inconsistent, and again, its something that the writers can be blamed for as I had been under the assumption that Arthur knew Mordred had magic, since he knew he was a druid. But oh well! We know for the most part what turns Mordred against Arthur and I am dreading that because I just love their relationship so much!

Its definitely time for Merlin to take a leap of faith. Those three years of peace in Camelot, would have been the perfect opportunity. No threats of Morgana, no anything. He could just be doing so much, and saving so many people. For example, Elyan. I firmly believe that if they were aware of Merlin's magic, they could have taken an entirely different approach to saving Guinevère. Its true that it goes ill for him, but like I said, if Arthur knew how many times magic had been used for good . . . well, as we agreed he's a man of circumstance, I don't think his opinion of magic would be so harsh. He had said himself that he's only ever seen magic used for evil. He gave 'Merlin' his word that he would remember the sorcerer saving Guinevère. He gave Old Merlin a promise that he would allow magic to be practiced when he's king. If Merlin was more honest with him, it might strain their relationship, yes. But it could do wonders in changing Arthur's attitude toward magic. Cause as I said, if anyone has the power of doing so, its Merlin. And he's definitely not using it, but rather, just waiting and waiting for Arthur to come to that realization. When all he's doing is letting Arthur's eyes open more to how evil magic can be as his enemies strike.

Spoilers explain how Mordred is going to turn against Arthur so we just gotta brace ourselves for that ! Some don't think we're gonna get a magic reveal, which I hope isn't true at all!!! But who knows! I think/fear the series is going to end with Arthur's death and I will die right with him if that happens!

[youngwarlock]

I totally understand and see why it would be better if Merlin revealed his magic to Arthur, so many situations could have been avoided, so many lives could have been saved, etc.

It works better in a roleplay world, which is much more intense and has more depth. On screen it wouldn't neccessarily work so well because every single episode would go something like...

"so and so is in trouble! what shall we do!"
"oh dont worry, Merlin will use his magic to save them!"
Then Merlin would save the day openly and that would be it. There would be no suspsense on screen.

I still think the writers are being a little bit rubbish this series though.

[mordred]

I agree; in that in this series, there is a lot of inconsistancies with the writers; they seem to be forgetting things, omitting things, changing the characters to fit their purposes, which really bugs me (and I'm sure, others too!). They seem to be dragging out the reveal; if it will ever happen at all now; and I definately think it is more them than the character that is keeping his secret from being revealed from Arthur. I think very much this series it is about Arthur being protected rather than magic being revealed; Merlin's gaze is a lot more focused, so to speak, and he is being rather selective at times - however, there have been infuriating moments in this series where he's used magic right in front of Arthur and the Knights (or just Arthur), where the King should have realised something was up, but has turned a blind eye.

I think there is a big part of Merlin that fears revealing his magic because of how much it will change. He would go from being a somewhat useless (in Arthur's eyes) but loyal servant to the most powerful sorcerer in Camelot. This would put a tremendous strain on his and Arthur's relationship, I believe, no matter how much Arthur might be ready to accept magic into his Kingdom - even though part of me still very much believes that Arthur knows about Merlin's powers.

I also think Gaius has had much to do with Merlin being so secretive with his magic; Gaius, and whatever brought Merlin to Camelot in the first place. To go to a place that is known for detesting magic, for the first thing you witness there to be someone being murdrered for having magic must have been terrifying for Merlin; and in the years he's been Arthurs manservant, he's had to learn to be very careful who he trusts. Perhaps its just taking him some time to fully trust Arthur; though I agree that the King is more than ready, perhaps, to hear the truth without sending his friend to the executioner's block. I have to admit, Merlin's voicing that fear of being executed did shock me a little, considering how far I thought he and Arthur had come, but in some ways I can see where he is coming from. I agree that because of Merlin's conceal of his magic would have influenced Arthur's view on magic in general - after all, how can you believe something to be good if all you have seen or all you have evidence of is it being evil? - but at the same time I think Merlin has been cautioned into being... cautious and careful.

I think Mordred is a HUGE factor for Merlin; especially considering how close the writers have chosen to make Mordred and Arthur - it makes things that much more worrying for Merlin. I too was under the assumption that Arthur knew and accepted Mordred's being a druid, and was rather irked that apparenlty he has either forgotton or was unaware - then again, the matter has never been addressed directly by Arthur to Mordred or anyone else... he could just be keeping quiet about it.

I have to confess, Elyan's death irked me because it felt very much as though it was done for the sake of getting rid of Elyan and sewing the seeds for Guinevère's turn against Arthur and Camelot (Even though it was induced by Morgana's magic). I think the one thing we need ot remember is that though Merlin is obviously very powerful, he's still only barely a man, and inexperienced - he learns what he needs to as he needs to; there's every chance that he might not have known how to deal with whatever the Tower held, and that sending him in there may have ended in Merlin's death. I agree, though, that his reveal is taking far, far to long!

I've mixed feelings on what Merlin revealing his magic to Arthur could do. It could most definately change Arthur's view on magic for the better; but at the same time, he could very much feel betrayed by Merlin's lying to him for so long, and as we've seen in the past, Arthur doesn't like to be made a fool of. I see their situation very much like a game of chess; if a piece moves in slightly the wrong direction, it could br knocked off the board altogether!

I pray that the spoilers are wrong in regards to Mordred turning against Arthur - it seems a poor way for him to turn so completely against the King. I desperately hope we get the reveal, otherwise the series will seem a little cheap and pointless to me, I have to admit. We've been waiting so long! I agree, I'm half worried the series will end in Arthur's death, especially with all the hints towards it; but if it does, then it makes me wonder what the "High note" the series is supposed to end on is!

Merlin - I totally agree! In the roleplaying world we have much more time to write things out and explore things... the writers are on time constraints and money constraints! However, I think the writers are definately messing us around this series!!

[Arthur Pendragon]

Yeah to say their dragging it out is DEFINITELY true! I think that its something that hopefully will be wrapped up properly by the end of the series. I don't think its Arthur turning a blind eye as much as him just being too trusting of others. He was oblivious to Morgana's betrayal, Agravaine's betrayal, even Guinevère's enchantment. Its just in his nature to be far too trusting which is both a strength and a weakness for him. He can't lie for the life of him, nor pretend to be something he's not, so I think he sort of expects that from others, especially Merlin. Hahah yeah a few people like to believe that Arthur knew about Merlin's magic, though Bradley confirmed in a recent interview that he doesn't. He said he would have liked to play that, but in terms of how the show is, Arthur is not at all aware of Merlin's magic.

Yeah see I can agree that Merlin had to keep his magic a secret for lets say the first four years, but now I really just think its getting harder to justify his keeping this a secret. As I keep saying there is SO MUCH MORE he could be doing!! GAHH!! If they didn't have someone as talented as Colin to portray Merlin, I don't think I could like him as much. With how Colin plays that role, showing clear signs of conflict and things, I think its impossible to hate him for some of his mistakes! KUDOS TO COLIN! He's just brilliant!

Ahhhhh yeah Elyan's death was HORRIBLE! It was actually a decision by the writers, because they felt the need to kill someone off basically At least thats what it sounded like in an interview with Capps I don't think it had to do with Guinevère turning against Camelot and Arthur because she had already been enchanted by that point. She still felt emotion, but she was never vengeful against Arthur for Elyan's death. Even though Arthur had meant to die by that blade, not Elyan. She was just Morgana's slave. Ooohh you think Merlin's inexperienced?? Thats interesting !! I actually believe the opposite! I think he's learned what needs to be done in certain situations! Especially in the heat of the moment. Like when he was poisoned, he knew how to heal himself. With grander things, yes, he needs Gaius advice, but he also tells Gaius a lot more that he needs to figure out things on his own. I believe Merlin would have known what to do in that situation.

He has healed people before, and stopped such grand threats! I think he's grown a lot more confident. Though of course we'll never know with the direction the show actually took in those circumstances I'm just basing my belief off what we've seen in the past! Hahahah! I like that analogy! It being like a game of chess !! I completely agree with you that things could take a turn, but at this point, as I said, the longer Merlin puts it off, the worse its going to be! Because lets face it, there is NO WAY Arthur is just going to randomly agree that Magic is used for good. He NEEDS Merlin to show this to him. Its why I want the reveal to happen like this: Mordred 'kills' Arthur, Merlin heals him while Arthur is still aware of whats going on, so its undeniable! Granted, thats just my wishful thinking hahaha! Who knows how or if the show is going to do it!

HHAHAHA Merlin!! I love your take on it! Thats SO TRUE! Definitely more opportunity in the RP realm!! The actors all seem satisfied with the ending and apparently, there is no movie ! They said they all liked how it ended and it was rather satisfying so hopefully it'll still be open to LOTS of possibilities for us writers !

[youngwarlock]

Dec 4, 2012 13:11:43 GMT -5 Arthur Pendragon said:

Its why I want the reveal to happen like this: Mordred 'kills' Arthur, Merlin heals him while Arthur is still aware of whats going on, so its undeniable!

THIS is precisely what I've been hoping will happen too!