The Dark Tower - Discuss! (SPOILERS!)

[youngwarlock]

Sh...Sh....She's....g..g...got .......Guinevère!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mordred]

I hate to be nitpicky...

but I'm surprised Guinevère was that easily won over. I mean.... Arthur did manage to save her and everything; it wasn't his fault that Elyan wanted to prove himself... surely Gwen can't have been won over so quickly by Morgana? And to say that she "Hated all of them..."... isnt' that a bit.....? *trails off with a frown*.

I do like Guinevère's character but I thought she was being a bit melodramatic in that last bit...


Having said that, I LOVE how they dealt wtih Elyan after.... That scene. Beautifully done!

[youngwarlock]

Totally get what you mean Mordred....it was very........um..... It was like there were a ton of scenes missing!!!!

[mordred]

Exactly, Merlin!! Like there was another side to that story that we, the audience, didnt' see... which is just crazy. I don't know, my head is all over the place with that episode!

[Princess Polyxena]

Ι cried for Elyan.... How this happened??? I wasn't prepare for that.....

After I saw Guinvere and Morgana to hug ech other secretly in the forest.... Started to cry from joy, thought oh yes Morgana adn Gwen again friends....... And after.......

And the trailer?

[youngwarlock]

Nov 10, 2012 16:29:30 GMT -5 mordred said:

Exactly, Merlin!! Like there was another side to that story that we, the audience, didnt' see... which is just crazy. I don't know, my head is all over the place with that episode!

This is how my head feels too

[thegwaine]

Unpopular opinion alert XD

I felt really sorry for Morgana when she was describing the conditions that she was kept in. I actually even cried a bit because you could still see that glint of the old Morgana within her. It doesn't justify what she was upto with Gwen but still, I Katie McGrath is a FANTASTIC actress and her performance was absolutely amazing!

I didn't see the thing with Elyan coming, I thought that the Gwen that was in the room would turn out to be some sort of clone or whatever, and I was just shocked about how it all happened to be honest. It was just so heartbreaking! I don't think I'll get over that for a while.

It was a bit surprising that Gwen was so easily won over by Morgana? It reminded me a little of how easily Morgana herself changed her alliegence in series 2/3. Just saying XD

[youngwarlock]

Gwaine I agree, the bit with Gwen in the room (with sword) seemed to come out of nowhere, and it happened right after she had declared to Morgana that she would rather die in the tower than follow her!

[youngwarlock]

As a sidenote..... I cannot WAIT to see Dragoon (old Emrys) next week!!!!!!!

[mordred]

How did I miss these last four posts on here?? Gwaine, completely agree with you as far as Elyan is concerned! It very much came out of the blue and seemed a bit pointless - the only point of it being to kill off Elyan! With Morgana, I have to wonder if she made up the whole thing... I do agree that Katie's acting is amazing though, and she really does a great job with Morgana!

And I totally agree as far as Gwen being won over - far too easy, and it makes me VERY disappointed in Gwen; she should have more faith in Arthur. On that side note, something I've only just thought of that REALLY annoyed me... how quickly Arthur seemed to give up and thought they had lost Gwen at the start. It was only Merlin encouraging him that kept him going!! Surely he should have more faith than that?

Aond OMG, Merlin, YES! I cannot wait to see Dragone again either!! I'm looking forward to seeing what his part in this next episode will be!

[Lady Elenora]

I completely disagree about Gwen being won over. She suffered days of not eating, hearing screams and seeing the people she loved the most laughing at her. She remained strong and I think that Morgana ended up putting her under an enchantment. Because if you remember the scene before Elyan goes to fight the sword, Gwen says she would rather die than be a part of Morgana's plans and Morgana says something about forcing her.

So I think Gwen is under an enchantment and wasn't easily won over. You saw her denying food or anything from Morgana. She told Morgana she didn't want anything to do with her plans and she tried really hard not to believe that Arthur was the real Arthur. So no I don't think it was easy not by a long shot.

[Arthur Pendragon]

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH NORA! I firmly believe that Guinevère is under an enchantment! I was just explaining to Mordred that this is like the Lancelot thing all over again!! When Morgana brought back Lancelot, and Guinevère proved her loyalty to Arthur, then Morgana was forced to enchant Gwen to make her lust after Lance. THIS is the exact same thing! Guinevère had proven her loyalty to the people she really loves, so I believe that Morgana had to use magic to make her do what she wants.She constantly underestimates Guinevère's strength and I LOVED Guinevère for being so strong in this episode!

I acutally have NO symapthy for Morgana!! I think she was just using that story to try and get sympathy, and this may sound harsh, but she got what she deserved. SHe has killed, terrorized and done SO much to people, that whenever something happens to her, she's like "OMG POOR ME! EVERYONE FEEL SORRY FOR ME!!!" I know that may sound harsh, but I am SO DONE with Morgana. She has hurt FAR too many people to ever get an ounce of sympathy because at this point, nothing can justify her actions!

In terms of Arthur having more faith, I think he was just scared and didn't know how to handle the situaiton !! He believed she was alive otherwise he would not have gone to the Dark Tower, but I think he was just having trouble coping with the fact that she was gone

On another note, I WANT ELYAN BACK!!!!!!!!! THAT WAS SO HEARTBREAKING

[youngwarlock]

I find it interesting how surprised Morgana was when she discovered that Gwen knew nothing about her being imprisoned for two years.... So did Morgana think Arthur was responsible I wonder?

[Lady Elenora]

Thanks Arthur! From spoilers we have a idea that Gwen is under an enchantment and I know that she is.

I completely agree with Arthur about Morgana.

[Arthur Pendragon]

Nov 10, 2012 22:57:05 GMT -5 @youngwarlock said:

I find it interesting how surprised Morgana was when she discovered that Gwen knew nothing about her being imprisoned for two years.... So did Morgana think Arthur was responsible I wonder?

I think Morgana blames him for EVERYTHING to be honest !! Even stuff that he has NO control over!! It just feeds her need for vengeance against him and the entirity of Camelot! Hence, the reason she has become so irrational and un-justifiable!

[mordred]

I desperately hope Gwen hasn't been won over and that you guys were right. She seems to be a lot darker in this series than in previous ones, and I hope that darkness is hiding a stronger soul and that she's being controlled by Morgana with magic. In regards to Morgana, I think she very much blames Arthur for every wrongdoing in her life. Which is madness. I think if she had confided in him before she was corrupted, then Arthur might have accepted her for who she is, and even brought magic back into the Kingdom with Morgana's help. As such she's managed to be one of the many reasons why Arthur fears magic so.

I am still disappointed in Arthur for not having more faith, though I do see where you're coming from, Arthur, in regard to him being scared. Having said that, he seemed more downhearted than scared to me. That being said, I'm glad Merlin was the one to restore Arthur's faith and encourage him.

[Lady Elenora]

Nov 10, 2012 23:00:32 GMT -5 Arthur Pendragon said:

Nov 10, 2012 22:57:05 GMT -5 @youngwarlock said:

I find it interesting how surprised Morgana was when she discovered that Gwen knew nothing about her being imprisoned for two years.... So did Morgana think Arthur was responsible I wonder?

I think Morgana blames him for EVERYTHING to be honest !! Even stuff that he has NO control over!! It just feeds her need for vengeance against him and the entirity of Camelot! Hence, the reason she has become so irrational and un-justifiable!

Exactly and this is why I adore Gwen because she has been through more than Morgana and yet she has remained good, noble. While Morgana is only concerned for revenge and herself.

[Arthur Pendragon]

Nov 10, 2012 23:11:51 GMT -5 mordred said:

I desperately hope Gwen hasn't been won over and that you guys were right. She seems to be a lot darker in this series than in previous ones, and I hope that darkness is hiding a stronger soul and that she's being controlled by Morgana with magic. In regards to Morgana, I think she very much blames Arthur for every wrongdoing in her life. Which is madness. I think if she had confided in him before she was corrupted, then Arthur might have accepted her for who she is, and even brought magic back into the Kingdom with Morgana's help. As such she's managed to be one of the many reasons why Arthur fears magic so.

I am still disappointed in Arthur for not having more faith, though I do see where you're coming from, Arthur, in regard to him being scared. Having said that, he seemed more downhearted than scared to me. That being said, I'm glad Merlin was the one to restore Arthur's faith and encourage him.

YES!! EXACTLY!! I truly believe that if Morgana had come to him under non violent terms, then he would have been more accepting of magic. How can she say "He's just like his father when it comes to my kind!" when she hasn't even given him a chance to embrace it under peaceful terms?! She criticized the laws, yet SHE is the reason they remain in place! Arthur even used her name as an example when talking of how he has seen magic used for evil! He needs to see it for good, and until that grand moment comes, I don't blame him for keeping magic banned! I thought Morgana was the best person to change his mind, and now the only one who can do so is Merlin! Which is why I WANT A MAGIC REVEAL ASAP!!! I think Merlin can be doing a LOT more if he doesn't have to keep hiding who he really is!

YES! I like that Merlin is his support system in that way! See I think thats usually Gwen's role, giving him encouraging words when in the castle and such. Outside of it, Merlin falls into that place. I think without Gwen, Arthur just felt really lost and scared and he just didn't know who to turn to! Hence the reason he was sitting in front of her mirror and just blankly staring at her things right before Merlin walked in !! I thought it was really interesting to see jsut how much he loves Gwen and the strong influence she has in his life!

[Deleted]

Agreed Gwaine! Well, since this scene had some resemblance with how Morgana and Morgause always met, I hope they will finally shed some light as to how Morgause turned Morgana so completely evil while she was gone. Cause I think Morgana now did the same thing with Gwen, some sort of brainwash, and then they both set up the trap. The room was free of Mandrakes and there was a huge spider's web suddenly guarding the stairs... definitely not there by accident.

OK, writers... time to show a lil more of your cards And I can't help but feel sorry for Morgana too. She's all twisted now, but she has some reasons. Maybe seeing how 'easily' Gwen was turned, will make a few people understand Morgana better now. It's the same pattern!

Poor Elyan I will miss him!! Maybe we'll see reason for his death somewhen... maybe it was to make Gwen's sudden turn to 'darkness' easier to put through. And... it didn't come so directly out of the blue: The writers were very apt in setting up the 'final happy sibling banter' before they were attacked by the snakes (they use many of those tools ^^) and from the moment he ventured off alone, saying this was his task, I knew he would die. Only the main heroes (aka Arthur and Merlin) are supposed to survive such thigns plotwise ^^

[Arthur Pendragon]

Gwen's enchanted!!! There is NO WAY that she was turned to the dark side like that, because she blatantly rejected Morgana's friendship!! I think Morgana keeps trying to manipulate her but Gwen remained strong during that ENTIRE episode and there is no way she was suddenly like "Oh, I'll side with you Morgana." It is not at all in her character to do that, and even with the mandrake route, she refused Morgana's kindness. She had the food yes, but that scene where Morgana was like "I'm the only one you can trust."

She had ALMOST taken advantage of Gwen's state (due to the mandrake route) but Gwen still did not accept her. For her to turn so quickly from that, to wanting to kill Arthur is just impossible. So I don't at all believe she so easily turned to the dark side, but that she is enchanted! If there is ONE THING that has always been consistent with this series, its Gwen's loyalty and devotion to the people she loves.

I already ranted about Morgana, but I just don't think that this episode showed anything, other than the fact that she tried to manipulate Gwen and failed. So had to use more magic to get what she wanted her to do.

I also don't really think this situation is similar to Morgause and Morgana's. Morgause preyed on Morgana feeling alone in her magic. Morgana MADE Gwen feel alone and then preyed on her fragile mind due to the mandrake route. Morgana put her in that situation and tried to use it to her advantage, where as Morgana was already in a lonely situation when Morgause stepped in. I doln't think this explains Morgause/Morgana because that whole thing was just poorly done, where as this, its clear evidence of magic.